Talk:Treecat
WP content I have transferred and "honorversified" a certain amount of text from the Wikipedia article on treecats. However, it will need further revision, as the WP version has a tendency to "go on" about minor aspects in great detail and without citing any references, instead of sticking to the facts the way we try to do it here. -- SaganamiFan 20:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC) :Could you leave a note on the talk of Wikipedia's article that you have transwikified it? --Piotrus 23:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC) ::Done. -- SaganamiFan 10:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC) :The transfer has adopted a peculiar verb pattern. The original on en.Wikipedia is less problematic in that respect. In addition, the WP article has more detail of importance in understanding treecats and their interaction with humans. I think more needs to be copied over. Wikipedia ww 02:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC) ::Agreed. It just takes some time, and I still think that the WP article is more like an essay than a wiki article. Also, I have read every book and every short story taking place in the Honorverse, but there are a number of things and details that I cannot remember having read anywhere. I suspect a certain degree of original research, so this will have to be checked and referenced first... -- SaganamiFan 10:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC) More from Wikipedia I simply don't have time to incorporate all of it: Sense of "humor" The typical treecat sense of humor is similar to, but not identical to, that of humans. Most are prone to levels of practical joke and prank that can be more than uncomfortable for the "victim", though their emotional sensitivity to even humans they are not bonded to precludes the more savage varieties. One such involved disassembly of a fabric treecat doll and artistic partial burial of the front and rear portions on either side of a garden furrow being dug by a robot plow. The gardener in charge of that plow has recovered from the shock. They enjoy "wrestling" with their partners and others, and do so with enthusiasm and essentially perfect manners (i.e., claws retracted, biting restrained...). Some are fanatic Frisbee fans, and, having opposable thumbs and considerable strength, can throw with great finesse; being able to sense emotions in human Frisbee partners makes them particularly difficult to deceive "opponents". Treecat Frisbee fans regard canine (i.e., Terran dog) Frisbee players as seriously handicapped. "Frisbee keep-away" is a popular pastime for treecats playing with human children, as is "Catch the 'Cat" in which slower things such as adults and furniture are typically treated as part of the obstacle course. A favorite treecat maneuver in the latter is to escape being caught by going straight up the front or back of an onlooker (or some other more or less stationary "obstacle") at high speed, and then over the top. The onlooker is likely to be quite startled, but treecat control of their claws is excellent, and scratches (even damage to clothes) are very rare. The occasional example is better understood to one of the more strenuous practical jokes or less than lethal revenge than anything else. Since communication has been established, such reactions are less easy for humans to ascribe to a treecat "animal nature" and lack of intelligence; after all, they can now merely be asked. Though they can swim, treecats dislike getting wet and regard human voluntary swimming (whether in pools or elsewhere) as an extreme example of human oddity; an actual fondness for swimming by particular humans is evidence of still further peculiarity. In at least one case, a human hang-gliding fan has helped her treecat partner to discover an unsuspected enthusiasm for aerial adventures hundreds of meters higher than the top of any Sphinxian tree. That treecat was also the first ever to have a spacesuit made and fitted specially for him; he has acquired considerable skill in using it, and its attitude and propulsion jets, to get around in airless microgravity environments. His maneuvering skill is exceptional, and he quite rapidly learned to take safety issues seriously (e.g., attitude and propulsion jet exhaust dangers to others)—all without, note carefully, the ability to communicate abstract concepts such as "vacuum". They are not above purloining the occasional stuffed celery canape, nor of taking advantage of their "cuddly" qualities (in human eyes) with their partner's human acquaintances, or even of deliberate longterm "maneuvering" of humans whose hostility to their partner (or to them) might cause problems. In short, they can be effective "diplomats", if sometimes somewhat underhandedly so. It helps that they are fond of close contact with humans, especially from "their own" human, and of what might be, but should never actually be, thought of as "petting". Independence of humans Treecats are not tame nor inherently subordinate to their adopted human in any sense; they can and do make their own judgements about any matter they understand. Much of what humans do, and how they go about doing it, has made no sense to them, and they very clearly realize the limitations of their understanding, especially those treecats bonded with a human and living among humans. Nevertheless, they are, within those limits, voluntary companions albeit as the result of a poorly understood, if intense, specific attraction to, and bond to, a particular human. However, they fully understand immediate physical threat, and can sense emotional hostility to them or a human from any human within range, and decide for themselves when and if action (perhaps violent and deadly) is required. They are even capable of noticing when humans have come under compulsion of various sorts, and when these are malevolent, of taking immediate direct action. These reactions are not, in many cases, under the complete control of their bonded partner (human or treecat). Treecats can and will take independent direct action in defense of themselves, their families, their fellow clan members, and on occasion other treecats generally. Any treecat is capable of taking, and strongly—instinctively—motivated to take, action in defense of its bonded human against any reachable threat, including other humans. Being very fast, extremely agile, very strong, and quite well armed, treecats can be deadly; treecats have killed several humans (generally in defense of others, including humans). Their judgements and actions are almost always reasoned, and—being able to read emotions—better informed than observing humans can be, though the reasoning is not necessarily on a basis clear to, nor approved by, humans, including their adopted human. Treecats are less ambivalent about violence (especially their own) than are humans. They regard a threat killed as a threat properly dealt with, and devote no further concern to it; their connection to emotional states of other living beings means there has been less doubt than among humans. Human methods and rules of coping with threats often make little sense to them and are put up with, as with table manners, for the sake of treecat-human relations or in individual cases an adopted human. In some circumstances, they will act to defend one or more non-bonded humans, and have sometimes cooperated with other treecats and humans in doing so. Treecats have assisted in identifying and capturing or killing criminals, including some humans. In some cases, they have detained humans for human collection (i.e., by police). Hissing and growling, war-cry threatening, treecats do not appear in any aspect cuddly or cute—they are taken very seriously. In the case of treecat criminals, action is more direct and less abstract, almost certainly due to treecat telepathy and empathy. Values In addition, especially when bonded to a human participant immersed in the situation, treecats generally understand the difference between ethical and unethical behavior, the necessity for emergency action to rescue others (either treecats or humans), and have a (rough by human standards) sense of justice. They also generally understand revenge, retaliation, hostility, and unreasonableness, even in human circumstances. Their sense of what is appropriate is less nuanced than that of most humans, and they are inclined to less abstract responses than most humans. The human in a bonded pair must provide perspective for both in such cases. Legal status Treecats, and much of their habitat on Sphinx, have long had special legal status within the Star Kingdom of Manticore (and, of course, on Sphinx) as an intelligent species—however obscure the exact level of that intelligence had long been. The Ninth Amendment of the Star Kingdom's Constitution specifically protects them, and they have a status equivalent to a minor child within the Star Kingdom. This development has been aided (or perhaps abetted) by the fact that several Manticoran monarchs have been adopted by treecats. As of Elizabeth III, seven of the previous nine monarchs had been adopted. The Royal Manticoran Navy (and Manticoran society generally) have perforce made accommodations accordingly, if in some cases grudgingly and with little understanding. Early in Honor Harrington's service aboard ship as a Midshipwoman, there were no more than perhaps 16 adopted treecats aboard RMN ships on active duty, even after the then expansion caused by Havenite territorial ambitions and the prospective war between Haven and the Star Kingdom. At least once, treecats were the object of a concerted (and almost successful) attempt to exploit them as experimental animals for research into their empathetic (and at the time conjectured telepathic) abilities. Only one living treecat was obtained for experimental purposes, and it died not long after capture. The research company behind the effort, The Richtman Corporation, was a covert project of Manpower Unlimited, the Mesa-based genetic slavery corporation, and was discovered to be so by a newsie (with Sphinx Forestry Service help behind the scenes). Since then, treecats have not faced anything publicly known which could be termed a species wide threat. The state of war between the People's Republic of Haven and the Manticoran Alliance may pose such a risk. Elsewhere, they have no legal status at all, save that which all members of an intelligent species have under the Eridani Edict. As the Edict is an attempt, named after an unfortunate human-caused incident on that planet in which several billion died, to prevent species extinction or planetary bombardment as a result of human action, and is enforced (rather more than less as it is built into the League Constitution) by the Solarian League (and some others), it is less than clear how it would apply to a single individual outside his (her, or other, depending) native environment. The status of an individual treecat outside the Star Kingdom is thus not well settled either in practice or law; there are exceedingly few, in any case. The status of treecats outside human space is still less clear but, as no such treecats are known, this is currently irrelevant. On Sphinx, the Sphinx Forestry Commission has special responsibilities for controlling human interference, and most interactions, with them in the "wild". The Commission is responsible for the one-third of Sphinx which has been reserved for their exclusive use. Its Sphinx Forestry Service stations (especially the headquarters in the Copperwalls region near Twin Forks) serve as rendezvous points for treecats wishing to meet humans, and vice versa. They attract treecats particularly interested in humans and have been the site of many adoptions. Sphinx Forest Service Rangers have the highest rate (and absolute number) of adoptions of any single human group. Grammar I'm new to to looking at the site, but i've noticed that you have a 'problem' everything is in the 'past' tense, were, was, etc etc etc. This makes for 'poor' reading for a start eg: tree cats tails were able to curl. If I can offer a suggestion to change it to fit the context of the artical which would mean things like A tree cat is tails are. etc etc. the current mess is just yeah a mess -- 08:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :This is a common matter of discussion, interestingly one that was brought up by another user just days ago... we have, as of now, adopted a policy common on most fiction wikis, such as Memory Alpha, the Wookiepedia, or the Starcraft or the 24 Wiki, which says that we write the articles on this wiki from an in-universe perspective in the future of the Honorverse, so to keep us from having to change the tempus in every reference to a person, nation or other thing whose alive/dead status changes, and because there is no omnivalent "present time" from different readers' points of view. :To sum it up, from the writing perspective of the wiki's narrative, everything described is already history. :And as for mess, maybe you should check your own posts where spelling is concerned... ;-) :-- SaganamiFan (Talk) 09:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::Such tempus manner is also WP standard, when fiction is concerned.--dotz 15:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC) :::Not quite. It's possible to adopt such a tempus policy without doing violence to English verb usage, making for peculiar readings, as has been done often here. Whether such a tempus policy is reasonable is quite another question. There is no good solution, and that usually employed is something of a kludge, as so much of English (especially its spelling) is. Nevertheless, whatever the tempus policy, good writing requires more care in use of verbs than we have in many cases here. I take the position that good writing is a sine qua non, and find it difficult to see any reason to accept less. Wikipedia ww 18:39, October 25, 2009 (UTC) ::::Right. An essay, where I read fiction should be described in past, disappeared. Wikipedia describes fiction in present in fact. So past tenses policy is specific just for Honorverse wiki. I am happy you assesed such a tempus policy as possible without doing violence to English verb usage. Good writing is really a problem, even in native language. I see my presence here as a part of my late education in English, so there is perspective my language command will be improved at least with merciful co-editors' help (I like Honorverse more than I am ashamed with my poor English, fortunatelly I am more careful with editing Wikipedia (generally in Polish)).--dotz 21:19, October 25, 2009 (UTC) ::::I moved this thread to forum, because we don't talk about treecats here.--dotz 22:21, October 25, 2009 (UTC) pegnancy length Here is the specultive timeline on treecat gestation. In HH7 Jason is stated as being barely four months old. Honor is returning to Grayson after a 8 month assignment to the WDB. At the end of HH6 They are at New Postsdam one month after the battle of Selkers Rift and the trip from New Potsdam to the Gregor Termanus is 1 week for warships and 20 days for merchants. I arrbatrarly gave Jason age as being 4 months plus a week and I split the differance in travel time and list the return trip to Manticore from New Potsdam as 14 days and allowed 1 week between the annoucement that Sam was pregnant and the battle. Jasons age 4 months, HH assignment to WDB 8 months leaves 4 months 1 week, plus 1 month between battle and New Potsdam plus 2 weeks travel and 1 week between announcement and battle. So 4 m 1 w + 1 m + 2 w + 1 w = 6 months. I may be off but the timeline works out pretty well.--John964 15:50, April 22, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds about right. Pregnancies are always a logic trap for writers... I remember a girl on the TV show "Rome", she was pregnant for half a season, but keeping the historic events happening aroung her in mind, she was pregnant for something like three years.... -- SaganamiFan 22:04, April 22, 2010 (UTC) Names What would you name a treecat if they were real and one had adopted you. Now remember most treecat names are either that of historical persons or mythilogical in nature. Mine would be Thor or Loki for mythilogical and Burke or Spruance. Have at it. --John964 00:11, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :Anubis. I know it's a dog name but I always wanted to name something "Anubis". Would name my son like that, the poor little fuck...! -- SaganamiFan 00:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC) :Pokermind (talk) 19:26, November 14, 2012 (UTC) My treecat buddy Mangy Fur or Mange for short Stone Biter even gets addressed on David Weber's Site Forums. Got name because I have to give him a bath after he cleans the ducts in the Embsy at Grayson and looks like he has a termal case of the Mange. Always fun to do as there is nothing as POed as a wet treecat. He also plays a mean Electric Lyre. Pokermind (talk) 17:33, November 15, 2012 (UTC)Pokermind A treecat Glossery Glossary TREECAT GLOSSARY: This is a modification of the glossery in the back of “A Beautiful Friendship” with cross reference to treecat terms I added bark-chewer—treecat term for wood rat. burrow runner—treecat name for a Sphinxian chipmunk. chipmunk—The Sphinxian chipmunk looks virtually nothing like its Terrestrial namesake, being the size of a small dog. The animal is a full-year active exothermic burrowing husker that lives off of the seed pods and fruits of the under story plant-life. The forelimbs and mid-limbs allow a little bit of arboreal movement. Its range appears to be tightly constrained by the picketwood environment. They appear to have a natural life span of two Sphinxian years, and are opportunists. Their burrowing ability allows them to dig through foundations and into greenhouses. In some areas of human settlements, they are on their way towards displacing Mankind’s oldest companion, the rat, as the greatest danger to household food storage and garbage disposal. The treecat name for a Sphinxian chipmunk is burrow runner. cluster stalk—treecat name for terrestrial celery. condor owl—a nocturnal flying predator of the planet Sphinx. An average adult condor owl’s body is 1.4 meters (4.5 feet) long, with a wingspan of 2.9 meters (9.5 feet) and a body weight of 5.4 to 6.35 kilos (12–14 pounds). Despite the name assigned to it by the Sphinxian colonists, it is actually mammalian and is covered with fine down, not feathers. It has very acute vision and is fully capable of taking even an adult treecat if it can surprise it. Indeed, it has been known to take considerably larger game and is considered a dangerous threat even to humans. Unlike Sphinxian “birds,” it has only a single set of wings but four sturdy legs, each ending in a set of powerful talons. The treecat term for condor owl is death-wing. crown oak—a deciduous hardwood tree which looks much like a really big white oak but has large, arrowhead-shaped leaves. It also sheds its leaves twice in the course of a planetary year, once shortly after the end of spring and again at the end of autumn. The summer-autumn foliage turns a bright, deep gold, rather like terrestrial maples, before falling, hence the treecat name for it. The spring-summer foliage does not change colors before it falls. Average height of a mature crown oak is 80 meters (263 feet), although some as tall as 102 meters (335 feet) have been reported. The treecat name for crown oak is golden-leaf. death fang—treecat name for hexapuma. death-wing—treecat term for condor owl. golden ear—treecat name for range barley. golden-leaf—treecat name for crown oak. grass runner—treecat name for a Sphinxian range bunny. gray-bark—treecat name for red spruce. green-needle—treecat name for near-pine. ground runner—a generic treecat term for small, non-arboreal prey animals. hexapuma—a six-limbed Sphinxian predator. Hexapumas are very quick for something their size and extremely territorial. There are several subspecies of hexapuma, which vary in coloration depending on the season and the climatic zone in which they are found. The largest species are located in Sphinx’s temperate zones, and adults of those species can be as much as five meters (16.4 feet) long with tails 250 centimeters (8.2 feet) long and weigh as much as 800 kilograms (1,763 pounds), more than most terrestrial horses. The treecat name is death fang. ice potatoes—a Sphinxian tuber, about twice the size of a terrestrial Irish potato, edible by humans. It is a winter-growing root with a rather nuttier taste than potatoes. The treecat name for ice potatoes is white-root. lace willow—a willow-like tree found mainly along waterways or in marshy territory. It is relatively low growing and bushy, with very long, streamer-like leaves. The leaves have a pierced look, because they form insect-trapping openings (thus the name “lace willow”). The treecat name for lace willow is ribbon-leaf. lace leaf—treecat name for near-lettuce. lake builders—treecat name for near-beavers. mountain eagle—a bird analogue of the planet Sphinx. It has two sets of wings and a single pair of powerful, talon-tipped legs. An average adult mountain eagle’s body is 1.0 meters (3.2 feet) in length, with a wingspan of 2.4 meters (7.9 feet) and a body weight of 4.1–5 kilos (9–11 pounds). The mountain eagle is a very efficient hunter, but prefers small prey and seldom attacks treecats. The treecat term for Sphinxian mountain eagle is peak-wing. near-beavers—a Sphinxian mammal approximately 51 centimeters (20 inches) long. Although the colonists have named it the near-beaver, it is actually closer to a six-legged otter in basic body form. Unlike terrestrial otters, however, the near-beaver is an industrious dam-builder. Various species of near-beaver are found in virtually every Sphinxian climate zone except the high arctic. The treecat name for near-beavers is lake builders. near-lettuce—a native Sphinxian plant very similar in size and shape to terrestrial head lettuce, although its leaves are perforated in a lacey pattern. It is edible by humans and is quite popular in salads, with a flavor which combines that of terrestrial lettuce and onions. The treecat name for near-lettuce is lace leaf. near-otter—a Sphinxian mammal approximately the same size as a treecat. Although they look very similar to the Sphinxian near-beaver, they have clearly carnivore teeth without the tree-gnawing incisors which gave the near-beaver its name. They do not build dams, but they are very fast, strong swimmers and skilled hunters and fishers. near-pine—an evergreen tree with tough “hairy” seedpods and a rough, deeply furrowed bark. The seeds are about the size of peanuts and have a strong, nutty flavor. They can also be crushed for oil. Average height of a fully mature near-pine is 62 meters (203 feet) although at least one specimen 76 meters (249 feet) has been recorded. After the crown oak, near-pine is the tallest Sphinxian tree. Mature trees are branchless for the lowermost third of their height. The treecat name for near-pine is green-needle. net-wood—treecat name for picket wood. peak bear—a six-limbed omnivore found primarily in mountainous territory. It stands about a meter (3.3 feet) tall at the shoulder and can be up to 2.5 meters (8.2 feet) in length and weighs up to 550 kilograms (1,212 pounds). Although not as territorial as the hexapuma and not a pure carnivore, the peak bear is a ferocious hunter and is considered the second most dangerous land animal of Sphinx. The treecat name for peak bear is snow hunter. peak-wing—treecat term for Sphinxian mountain eagle. picket wood—a deciduous tree which spreads by sending down runners from its lower branches. Each runner eventually becomes its own nodal trunk, sending out branches of its own to form huge, extensive networks of branches and trunks which are all technically the same tree. Picket wood has very straight, very rough-barked trunks which are a deep gray and black. Leaves are long and splayed, with four distinct lobes. They turn a deep, rich red before falling at the end of the year. The average height of a mature tree is 35–45 meters (114–148 feet). The treecat name for picket wood is net-wood . purple thorn—the treecat name for a low, densely growing, thorned plant which is nearly impenetrable and almost impossible to eradicate. It has small, very bitter-tasting berries, but it is a necessary component of treecat diets, since the berries provide critical trace elements required for full development of their empathic abilities. range barley—a native Sphinxian grain. Range barley is an alpine grass with a bearded head. While edible by humans, it has a rather astringent taste which is not widely popular. It can be ground into flour and baked or be more coarsely ground and made into a porridge. The treecat name for range barley is golden ear. range bunny—human name for a small, ground dwelling Sphinxian animal, approximately two thirds the size of a treecat. It runs with a distinctive “two-stage” leaping motion, hence the name, despite the fact that it doesn’t really look very much like a terrestrial rabbit. The treecat name for a Sphinxian range bunny is grass runner. red spruce—another evergreen, this one with scaled, very dark blue-green leaves and a pyramidal form. Its seedpods are smoother than the near-pine’s, but the seeds themselves are bitter tasting (to humans, at least; Sphinxian critters like them just fine). It is called “red spruce” more because of the almost russet color of its wood, which is prized for decorative woodwork. Average height of a mature red spruce is about 17 meters (56 feet). The treecat name for red spruce is gray-bark. ribbon-leaf—treecat name for lace willow. rock tree—a Sphinxian hardwood, so called because of the extreme hardness and density of its wood. A mature rock tree stands about 13 meters (42 feet) in height. It has long, slender, sword-shaped leaves of a particularly rich bright green which turn dark purple in the fall. It is noted for its very straight trunk. The brown rock tree is the most common species, named for its light-brown, rather rough bark. The next most common species is the yellow rock tree, named for the deep golden yellow natural color of its timber. Various species of rock tree can be found in almost every Sphinxian climate zone, although it does not like mountains. The treecat name for rock tree is tongue-leaf. snow hunter—treecat name for peak bear. Sphinx—Manticore A-IV, the fourth planet of Manticore A, a G0-class star which is the primary component of the Manticore Binary System. The planet of Sphinx is the outer habitable planet of Manticore A (orbital radius of 21.15 LM) and has a gravity of 1.35 Old Earth standard gravities. Sphinx Forestry Service—The Sphinx Forestry Service (SFS) is a Sphinxian planetary agency charged with the combined functions of wildlife and natural resources protection, exploration, environmental conservancy, and law enforcement. It is an arm of the planetary government, not the Crown, and consists of a very small cadre of full-time professional Rangers assisted by a larger force of part-time sworn volunteers. spike thorn—a native Sphinxian flowering shrub which fills much the same niche as azaleas or laurels, attaining a maximum height of about 3.6 meters (12 feet). Its leaves are dark green and spade-shaped, and it produces very sharp thorns up to 10 centimeters (4 inches) in length. Its blossoms, which come in many different colors, are vaguely tulip-shaped and are prized for the flavor their pollen gives to honey produced by imported terrestrial honeybees. tanapple—a native Sphinxian fruit, so named because it looks very much like a bright green, somewhat outsized terrestrial apple with a thick, easily peeled skin rather like a terrestrial tangerine. It is sweet tasting but tart. tongue-leaf—treecat name for rock tree. white-root—treecat name for ice potatoes. wood rat—a Sphinxian rodent-like, marsupial arboreal, about a third the size of a treecat. They are small and fast-moving creatures which live primarily on the bark and leaves of the crown oak, although they also infest other types of trees when no crown oak is available. They are also very fond of finished timber products, such as lawn furniture or wooden paneling. Enough of them can do significant damage to or even kill any tree, but such concentrated infestations are rare. The treecat term for wood rat is bark-chewer. :This is pretty well done! We should create an individual article for this ("Treecat language" or the like). -- SaganamiFan (talk) 22:26, November 15, 2012 (UTC) :Go for it, unfortunately I don't have an add toppic option on the main site any more. My jokes wern't that bad and I did say humor or lack thereof :D Pokermind (talk) 12:13, December 9, 2012 (UTC)pokermind Like genets? A few genets were on an animal show I was watching earlier, and one of my thoughts was "wow, that's almost like a real-life 'Cat". Anyone else see the similarity? — AnselaJonla (talk) 16:31, October 18, 2013 (UTC)